Despite my crusade for getting direct Adobe Illustrator file importing, multi chain support, and true holes into Trestle, there is a workaround for getting single chain Illustrator drawings into Animator and have the resulting polyline be editable within Trestle. Oh, I also cover EIM wires too.. though its not quite as usable due to a bug in Modeler.
We can’t see the video yet, today our normal connection is broken and we are on phone with 1K/sec only ;-( Anyway let us note: we totally disagreed with you about Paralumino model plug-ins’ functionality and goals.
These plug-ins should not “replace” modeler. This task is absolute senseless IMO, no any “ParaModeler” please. Models that require NURBS, organics etc. will be created in modelers applications with following import. And it’s going approximately same even in 3D apps that “have” integrated modeling tools.
But there is a wide range of relatively simple models that can be successfully covered/solved with surface tools like extruder, revolver and others. It’s absolute intolerant to voyage/dive into modeler for everything above UberShape. Here the surface tools can be a great help.
Look at “Fence.jpg” at Paralumino site. It’s really simple with Trestle. It can be easily modified, tenths of variants can be previwed in Animator just in minute or less, practically in real-time. It can be animated (although it’s a seldom case/usage). It has not a crowd of unneeded vertices. That were our ideas and we still think it’s usable and does make a sense.
Now look at what do you propose/insist so persistently. “We need” (classic formula) ai import (and not a silly one). “We need” CVS curves (of course ediable, right?). “We need” holes, booleans etc. Hmm… we guess it’s a start only, a lot of “need” will come We realize: you really “need”, but technically it’s a nonsense (said softly) to require all this from a plug-in (that also should be cheap as possible).
Ok, gentlemen, wake up please It’s very clear: that “you need” is .. just a solid modeler or specialized app. AFAIK Tesla is coming soon. Good luck and happy fly.
Hello. in my complete ignorance of development of a plugin, i have a few suggestions for Paralumino product line in general. You have to bend your arm a bit. Cheaper plug ins increase sells. A plug in that does geometry with very few animation features, sure is almost real time fantastic and can work with other plug ins but if you guys want to catch up you first have to go down before go up. That is life itself. Maybe you havent think how many seats will you have if you sell a total package like Sparks or any other name. doesnt matter really, if the Module works than people will not care what the name is .
Is awesome that you can integrate the plug into Placer and Dante or many others. But think about all the hot talk about C4D and how expensive they are , is it really? If you think about it is not, the core along comes with EI plug like FlexPath or Contortionist. You donot need Swage or Trestle it handles lofting and extruding beautiful real time and you can preview it in your main window, rotation and scale path. Is simply amazing that you havent agree in the idea of selling a whole bundle.
I was trying to animate Camera folowing a path , and there is no option in EIAS to do this you have to buy plug in just for animate the camera following a path .Well i cananimate objects following a path and many other things.
Again one more time EIAS comes in and breaks my heart:) I had a fish animation and i will like to make a flock and animate flowing a path. I have to buy a plug for that. No way i coul do that in any other app except EIAS which is an animation product and rendering. SO what is gonna be boyz.
Paralumino team is time for you to bend your arm why thre was a bot of increase in sells this month becuase of Brian promoting to buy the plugs so the team could see that there was an interest in getting the plugins.
I did promess i will get your plugins but first place you have a price for euros and another for US dollars. That is simply not fare for us.
I talk to Blair and i ask him about paying in euros and he did the conversion .
bundle should come people because otherwise the users want a complete product from Paralumino. So you will know why Mograph is so as evrybody says expensive , NOT.
Communication is the key to partnership.
I sure do wish there was a way to get the two of you faster internet. Working at 1k must be unbearable. I’d love for you to see some of the other videos I’ve been making about these plug-ins. But downloading a huge video file would take forever at your connection speed. Is your normal connection faster?
Its upsetting to hear that you still don’t understand the potential these plug-ins have for uniting the entire EIAS product line and 3rd party plug-in families. The fact that you’re only seeing them as “modeling” plug-ins clearly tells me that you have a limited understanding of what is truly possible with this kind of technology inside of Animator. Clearly you are not animators. Tesla, with all of its great modeling potential, will still not provide us with a proper solution inside Animator. The resulting models generated by Telsa will still be imported into Animator the traditional way as vertex locked, static fact models with no construction history or any kind of dynamic component level vertex interaction within Animator. That is enough to completely marginalize EIAS as an unwanted 3D application from an animator’s perspective.
As much as I expound this technology as being something “I need”, the fact is it is a technology that Animator absolutely “must have” in order to be somewhat competitive in this modern marketplace. The Paralumino plug-ins offer the fastest avenue to providing Animator with additional internal modeling AND animation capabilities without the need to dramatically alter the Animator framework with the “Mesh” and “Hidden Plugin” sub-systems you, yourself have identified. You also know as well as I do that obtaining the ability to vertex edit and animate models within Animator is impossible without these extra framework technologies. So unless we want to wait for one, two or even three more upgrades for these framework enhancements to be put in place, we need to find ways to enhance Animator’s desirability now. Secondly, you’ve said it yourself, why pay for these framework enhancements when no other features could be done at the same time. You’ve estimated “Mesh and “Hidden Plug-ins” would be monumental undertakings for you and users would not want to pay for upgrades that just promote unseen, non-tool, enhancements.
Let me paint a picture for you Igors. Tesla will not solve the animation limitations within Animator...and unless Animator obtains a way to remain viable as a product, its future is at risk. Transferring animation responsibilities away from Animator to Tesla is a good idea for the future, but its unlikely we’ll see something like that happen any time soon.
So Igors perhaps you need to wake up. Animator must be enhanced with new geometry level animation capabilities because Tesla will not solve this problem for us.
If you don’t believe me, ASK THE USERS. There have been several highly qualified animators and modelers on this forum and CGTalk telling you flat out that this kind of functionality is needed. Why don’t you believe them?
If you check the store, prices are listed in Euros and Dollars. Besides, when you make a purchase with Paypal the exchange rate is automatically calculated on the fly. Pay in Euros if you want, paypal doesn’t care. It will convert the purchase to dollars anyway. Besides with the weakened state of the dollar, you’re getting a great deal.
I can’t agree more with you about how EITG needs to increase EIAS core animation features. I am trying to work out a solution for this but I must respect the Igors wishes for no super bundling until I can convince them otherwise. But in order to do that, I have to show them that it can remain a profitable deal for them and for myself as the potential distributor to create a bundle.
Personally, I’d like to have a “super” bundle. It makes sense from a marketing perspective and it clarifies a huge number of questions for the user.
first let me thank you for all your hard work and coding. i complain that using 3d software is complicated sometimes, but i can’t imagine trying to write it…
I do hope that you get a chance to watch that video about the paralumino plug-ins being animated and combining with other plug-ins...it was an eye opener for me. i immediately went and priced out the full package of plug-ins.
the possibilities for creativity beyond animating logos literally staggered me for a good amount of time.
here’s one example of what i will be using the plug-ins for once i can afford to buy them.
taking a 2d image of a cluster of galaxies, using that on an alpha plane which would be a stamp object with a combination of trestle/scrim/swage objects as stamp surface and volume fill objects. animating the trestle lines and stamp objects/surfaces to illustrate the formation of the supercluster web (that is largest known gravitationally bound object in the universe) from the original sort of even distribution of galaxies in the early universe.
that’s pretty far beyond animating a logo, don’t you think? there’s really nothing bigger than you could do with that, literally.
i came up with that use about a minute after i started to grasp the interaction and what stacking a plug-in that animates geometry allowed me to do.
the ability for almost realtime updating reduces the development time of this scene dramatically.
so thanks for everyone’s work on these plug-ins, and i’d like to see them developed further…
Sounds like quite a project you’re thinking up. Sounds like fun. Having component level animation capabilities on geometry within Animator is like night and day. Once you understand the potential you just can’t think of other ways to accomplish such complicated tasks using the old “static import” work paradigm any more. Peter Lehreck has also seen the potential and now he uses component level geometry animation in nearly every shot he does for the various cable TV programs he works on.
V1 is quite powerful....but its just the tip of the iceberg. One of the issues EITG must face for EIAS is finding a quantum shift in how to use their software package...and they need to find that shift immediately. These plugins can be that quantum shift for EI especially if the concept is embraced and catered to.
This is my demo reel, it is intended for motion graphics but i want to be able to add a lot of 3d. And i think Paralumino product line is right for my taste , i dont do a lot of heavy work but i like to be able to move my camera around withouth the limitation of an after effects it just doesnt work for me.
http://www.vimeo.com/1133851
So as you can see there is a lot Photoshop and AFter Effects very little C4d just and very few EI so i want to be able to implement EI in my pipeline ,with some GI for motion graphics now is one the thing people ask me for. I dont ave the AR but if i do i will take a lot of hours to render anything at HD. SO that is where EI comes in handy.
I like also that you can add lights in Cinema as marjers for objects in after effects but no need for that now i need just some smooth camera movement animating following a path or a plug in of any kind that can set different goals in a scene where the camera looks at.
Sounds like quite a project you’re thinking up. Sounds like fun.
that’s only one small piece of it, i’ve been looking for a solution for that part for awhile though...luckily there are so many other parts to work on, i can wait for techniques to be available…
Perhaps you’d like to elaborate what you want to construct and we can all brainstorm how you can accomplish what you want to achieve. There are a lot more ideas for the usages of these plugs that I didn’t get into.
Thanks Brian , i just imagine all these images in a real 3d environment with multiple swages extrusions , multiple trestle arrowsrunning along images driving the eye into a Braider Logo.
Just a character imported via fbx running into a Trestle shape and these shape from a top view becomes another set of curves and shapes animated by Swage.
With a bit of imagination you can animate the motion of an object and use swage as trails of dust or smoke so you can even fake some particles ,all at the speed of real time .And what is best is that you will not have to wait your whole life when you hit the render button.
Vedry different to Cinema Mograph , excellent but it takes so much to render and dont add any reflections to the objects.It will take forever to render.But you have the effectors which are a beauty that is the thing with Mograph the effectors that is why it is sold separate with no bundle.
But i hope Paralumino Team developed a new version 2 for Animator. I admire how you came up with the CV animation. Still a bit young but it will be a golden mine for a few years. Until Tesla start to deliver animation capabilities it will be i donot know how many versions of EI but a few of them for sure.
Anyways thanks again Brian. I have being too absent from the forum too much work i was doing a few bumpers,intros,trailers,roto, matchmove.. oh god i was needing a break form all this. Nothing like being freelance.
Edgard
well, i think i just figured it out with these plug-ins but here’s the basic idea.
as the wall of the big bang’s expansion approaches the main character, the POV goes to an extreme macro shot of this reflecting off his eye to a pull back and orbit around so it’s a profile shot as the wave actually hits him, time slows down(not that it existed before this moment, but you get the idea) and the camera becomes the characters POV by dollying into his position. from there, as his mind comes back into the real universe, there’s a series of fractal kaleidescopes that pulse with music through a progression revisiting the concept of all symbols in reality/aspects of reality coming back to a color/numeric matrix (this is explored more in-depth in an earlier segment). the fractals are made in a program called quadrium and then worked over in AE and Motion. the fractals can be made to dissolve into clouds made of single pixels-which will become the first stars, these will collapse into the first galaxies and clusters of galaxies as the camera pulls back for a super wide view of this happening until each cluster is a small collection of points which i will then take stills of and map onto alpha planes and continue on as described earlier in this thread…
then the POV slowly travels all the way to the milky way galaxy, through that and into the solar system, past all the planets and then back to a beach in Florida(most of this sequence is done already). all timed to original music i made for this.
any suggestions are welcome. dante will not work though as i can’t network render with it and i’m doing everything at 3840x2160 and have commercial work to do as well…
unless someone has been keeping a way to get dante to work reliably with renderama a secret…
“V1 is quite powerful....but its just the tip of the iceberg. One of the issues EITG must face for EIAS is finding a quantum shift in how to use their software package...and they need to find that shift immediately. These plugins can be that quantum shift for EI especially if the concept is embraced and catered to.”
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AMEN! perfectly stated
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Hello Igors, Brian Pohl is THE BEST evangelist and supporter that EITG has. He is FAR MORE EXPERIENCED frankly, than you two are as to what ARTISTS want and would NEED. Please keep your posts related to programming issues and ‘can it be programmed’ type issues. Your understanding of what we designers and artists need is sorely lacking. Im sorry, but
it needs to be said.
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The EI community has SPOKEN LOUDLY in the hundreds and thousands of posts and views on this topic. You purposely have put your heads in the sand when it comes to this. Its sad and frustrating. If you continue to ignore and insult Brians efforts, research, and ALL OF OUR EXCITEMENT over them, you will drive him away from EI completely and cement your legacy for ever at EI if this happens.
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Brian and Myself and many others truly CARE ABOUT EI succeeding. Its withering on the vine presently, and Tesla
can not change that much. (Its still NOT an integrated modeler, so C4d, Maya, Max, XSI will still have a major advantage over EI) fyi - Tesla as a product, I am totally EXCITED about!! And if we hang in their long enough, in the years to come it will \ should become the integrated, modern hi - end 3d product of our dreams
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I dont think you ever hear us EVER saying whether something can or can not be programmed. That is your expertise.
I would urge you to STOP telling US that implementing .ai support in trestle, or WHEREVER we users need it, is a bad
idea. Your NOT an artist making your living doing this stuff, WE ARE. And when HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of EI artists and designers say they want it and need it, you best listen. It is obvious to the hundreds in agreement with us
that this is NOT redundant with Tesla. We know this topic deeply, inside and out. And frankly, were the professional artists and users who know our field the best, you do not. We are not programmers, but both of you are NOT Brian Pohl either.
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If we were to take a survey of Who’s opinion on what FEATURES EITG should implement. A-Brian Pohls or B- the Igors it would be a landslide in favor of Brian, his resume is impeccable.
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in fairness, if we took a survey of who should program - you would win in a landslide.
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please do not continue to ignore the overwhelming desire from EI users for this. (dont ignore CG talk either)
With all these emotions it’s really hard to understand what features you and Brian talk about. If we’ve understood well (correct us if we wrong), they are:
- intelligent ai import (not “just geometry")
- ability to edit imported contours in Animator (don’t know/understand details although)
Users’ opinion about it is “a long spectrum”. Some people would say YES!!, some others - more calm, like “yes, sometimes it can be very usable”, and others “it’s not interested for me”. It’s just a normal, standard situation/layout. So, does it make a sense? Maybe yes (especially together with intensive promo).
BUT: NOT IN BOUNDS OF THIRD-PARTY PLUG-IN. That’s what we explained you at least 10 times, on forum and in private letters. Let’s look/think a little:
- there is already ai import in other part/app of EI, so it seems logical to use it.
- there is MrFont. Yes, some options looks “ancient”, but it’s a solid piece of software. BTW: MrFont “understands” holes and can process them.
- there are curve editors in EIM
- there is a modest Trestle mini-editor
Understand, all these parts are “scattered” and no one does what we need. It’s only “raw material”. But we 100% sure: THAT is a way to go if we talk about your prj seriously. Of course, as a new regular EI feature.
What do you propose instead? Let’s start all from scratch? Let’s work several months just to have another one “unfinished piece” (like above) that’s finally still “not enough”? Let’s create a plug-in and then run with it “as a chicken with egg” to hear a reasonable user’s unsatisfaction: “why I should pay for what should be in host?”
So, Scott, whose ears are full of sand? Please contact with EITG and get their bless - in any way you want. Then we’ll be happy to discuss all details. Before this - please don’t disturb people with new “explosions of passion”
We realize: you really “need”, but technically it’s a nonsense (said softly) to require all this from a plug-in (that also should be cheap as possible).
