Ok...since we seem a little stuck over in the methodology department, we’ll just go directly into tools.

Proposed Tool #1: Visualizing the initial bind as a form of editable strength map for every bone in the solution.

Under the current EI system, this is certainly possible in the same manner the FBX system is deriving its solution. The underlying bind is always on, but it can only be “changed” through altering the skinning globals not by directly painting on it. Alteration of the influence of the underlying bind must be done with standard EI strength maps. There is virtually no change here other than an automatic map being created for each bone where the map accurately shows the actual region of influence. (Where white represents the influence and black does not). Strength maps would operate just like before, they could be turned on and off. But altering the strength map doesn’t actually alter the initial bind at all, it just decreases, completely removes, or maintains the amount of influence the underlying bind already has on geometry.

Pros: Uses the current EI system. Requires less change to the base code to implement. Should be a reasonably quick upgrade.

Cons: Will not dynamically alter the underlying bind. Strength maps will not reflect a dynamic redistribution process when painted. Potential overlapping of strength maps after being altered by the user may still produce creases or falloff issues unless a means to smooth painted areas are obtained.

Potential Suggestions: Switching to an “event/after bind” based methodology would essentially take a “snapshot” of the existing initial bind and turn it into an actual weight map for every bone in the solution. Dynamic painting of the weights after the bind would then redistribute and re-average the values between each map based off the Bone Max setting rather than trying to conform to a constantly “on” underlying initial bind.

Hey Brian,

Thanks. Can’t afford to get stuck.

I hope this impromptu video helps illustrate the workflow.

INITIAL BIND MAPS:  http://homepage.mac.com/avtpro5/.Public/VisibleBindMaps.mov.zip

Hi All

Actually #1 looks like a set of considerations, there is no UI, no functionality description. Need further work(s) to make it enough concrete, now it’s not a feature proposition yet.

Let us say what tool we would like to see for same purpose. It’s just a fantasy/improvisation, and, of course, our personal opinion.
The workflow is;

- user selects some vertices in EI windows. Typically it’s a place of bones joint. Ok, these vertices are marked with little red quads.

- user drags a slider to control effect “spread”. Neighbor vertices are marked with darker color

- user presses a key or selects a menu line. A dialog appears. Like in PShop but instead of “Hue” “Brightness”, “Contrast” sliders there are “Bone 5”, “Bone 6” etc. Very similar to morph window

- user drags sliders left-right and sees what happens with surface

- press Ok, “Enter action name”. Typed, the named action is stored in a list of hidden plug-ins, available for further editing.

That would be a TOOL - easy, intuitive and interactive. Instead of looong but finally ineffective farting with numerous painting etc.

Hello Igors,

The “tool” aspect of feature proposal number one is executed at the point of skinning geometry to bones. The “tool” essentially calculates the weighting solution from the global skin settings/conditions and generates a weight map for every bone in the hierarchy that represents what the actual bind looks like on a bone by bone basis. Now, with every bone’s weight values positively visualized, the user can paint and redistribute those values dynamically throughout the entire solution and the weight maps would update accordingly based off the limits set within the Bone Max setting.

Proposed features here are: Dynamic Weight Painting & Automatic Weight Map generation (1 bone = 1 map)

Your workflow sounds interesting, but seems dependent on some extra infrastructure enhancements like “Mesh”. You can’t currently select individual vertices in an EI work window. Are you planning on adding that functionality or would it be done through some kind of plugin? Or would you select the vertices in some other manner like by painting them?

Paralumino - 29 August 2008 07:23 AM

Hello Igors,
Your workflow sounds interesting, but seems dependent on some extra infrastructure enhancements like “Mesh”. You can’t currently select individual vertices in an EI work window. Are you planning on adding that functionality or would it be done through some kind of plugin? Or would you select the vertices in some other manner like by painting them?

This does sound like the mesh selection plugin interface for Trooper. (red quad select). I like that plug but the “event” of binding the skin is not a “tool” or should not be sectioned off in a separate plug interface. It’s a menu item “Bind Skin”.
The result is

1. Bones skinned to geometry (via Bind Skin Menu item).
2. Strength maps for each bone in “Strength Map” Dialog window.

Benefit to user:  Strength maps for each bone can be painted and editing can begin. Each map for each bone is mathematically normalized. No arbitrary manual strength map creation for each bone. Just editing

Current workflow.

1. Bones skinned to geometry (via Bind Skin Menu item).
2. No strengths maps in dialog window.

Disadvantage to user:  No strengths maps. Arbitrary strength maps are not accurately based on Global skin settings.
Tedious workflow not suitable for professional deadline driven projects.

The underlying function of #1 we are requesting is:

1. strength maps are created by “Bind” menu item.
2. Strength maps repainting recalculate a normalize vertex weighting.

If you can download this video it discusses why the dynamic recalculation is paramount for responsive weight/strength map painting.

A recalculation of weight values is necessary to set the priority of vertex behavior. When a bone’s weight map is given a higher grayscale value than neighboring bones, it’s essentially lowering the “priority” for other vertexes. It is essentially telling the other verts and bone, “Let Go” or “This vertex is coming with me”. Unless the other vertexes values are lowered the higher value has no priority. The vert is stuck.

This is the struggle between the underlying initial bind and the current strength maps. When we paint, unless the other maps are recalculate (re-averaged) to a lower value, the priority or strength is not redistributed to the new map.

I hope my video are not to much trouble to download. They do explain the topic of why maps need to be constantly (realtime dynamically) REDISTRIBUTE PRIORITIES. It’s a underly mechanism not a user tool per se.

http://homepage.mac.com/avtpro5/.cv/avtpro5/Sites/.Public/reaveraging priorities.mov-zip.zip

Beta Testers would like to forego any implementation of “Mesh or Select Vertices” inorder to expedite “Dynamic Redistribute Weight Value” or normalize function.

Why is the text light gray?

Hi Igors,

I guess Brian should have called this “Feature 1” as I guess it’s not really a tool. The ability for a visualization of the “initial bind” is crucial in setting up a characters weights properly, as well as being able to edit them. So once this feature is accepted we can move on to some new tools, like hold, mirror, and so on.

Thanks

Hello Igors,

“Enter action name”. Typed, the named action is stored in a list of hidden plug-ins, available for further editing.

Upon saving this data, would it be available for use by Xpressionist? If so, then vertex binding could be adjusted per bone rotation. That would be useful, once the riggers get used to the work flow.

I have an open mind. I am not decided in favor of painting, nor against. I simply want to be able to adjust the mesh so it performs well as the joints in my character move.

This tool idea sounds interesting.

Hi, Richard

CA Morley - 29 August 2008 12:14 PM

I guess Brian should have called this “Feature 1” as I guess it’s not really a tool. The ability for a visualization of the “initial bind” is crucial in setting up a characters weights properly, as well as being able to edit them. So once this feature is accepted we can move on to some new tools, like hold, mirror, and so on.

We are not who “accepts” features or not We can say our opinion only.

Maybe things can be easier if someone just said directly: “Let’s copy strength maps behavior from maya” We personally see no any “shame” in this formula - at least it’s short and straightforward. And we understand how it does work there. But we don’t want to take a responsibility like “it’s what EI user needs!” - that’s we just don’t know

Hi, Kurt

First off, let us note: we like the constructive approach you demonstrate in your several recent posts. Let’s find solutions instead of to talk about how bad all is - totally agreed. About your Q:

KurtF - 29 August 2008 01:45 PM

“Enter action name”. Typed, the named action is stored in a list of hidden plug-ins, available for further editing.

Upon saving this data, would it be available for use by Xpressionist? If so, then vertex binding could be adjusted per bone rotation. That would be useful, once the riggers get used to the work flow.

I have an open mind. I am not decided in favor of painting, nor against. I simply want to be able to adjust the mesh so it performs well as the joints in my character move.

This tool idea sounds interesting.

Yes, of course, the saved “action” is fully animatable like a plug-in. It can be controlled by XP (or better yet - by driven key). Paint maps is a good thing and simpler to implement. But their abilities are enough limited, especially in animation. There are a lot of pre-steps/works on a way we described, but it can give much more.