I’m kinda with Scott on this one. Play to EI’s strengths. If character animation is your thang, isn’t XSI, Maya or MAX the no brainer way to go? Use the best tool for the job, I always say. Or at least the tool that can get your job done quickly and easily.
Somewhat related, I’d love for Ian to produce a whole DVD on EI training. Borrowing from Lynda.com, there should be an essentials and beyond the basics course. I think at this point, the manual is never going to be re-written, so training DVD would be terrific in covering the basics for new users and advanced new features for gurus. Training is essential in attracting new users.
It doesn’t seem that the engine will ever go MP. Zax has never got his similar engine MP either. It’s 2008, any single threaded application isn’t MP by now, obviously can’t be. But how about going the AfterEffects route? Have Camera spawn multiple copies of itself and magically strip and stitch fragments in the background—avoiding Renderama entirely for local preview renders?
So here’s my tired wish list: Next Gen Renderama (Bonjour enabled, auto configure), Multi-Spawning Cameras for Slave (ask for multiple frames from Renderama and divide them up internally. Only 1 IP address needed per computer), Micro-Render texture previews (the old glossy/reflective sphere has virtually no meaning anymore). I think 64-bit can wait until v9.
Long time EI User here, back to 2.9. Sitting in the fence whether to go from 6.5 to 7. Do primarily motion graphics, logos and such.
I follow the forums and have been reading the recent threads here and on CG talk. I’m not much of a forum posting guy but I felt I had to get my 2 cents in.
Having recently moved to Malaysia I took a cultural training course here, “Hey Guys” is considered rude here as well, but the Malaysians I work with have dealt with North Americans enough realize coming from a us, it’s not an insult.
The Igors have been dealing with people from all over the world on here for ages now, and are still insulted by this? Give me a break, they have been much more insulting to the members here trying to help the EI cause. I realize the Russian culture is a little more harsh than ours, but what, we’re supposed to not say hey guys but they can mock users at will.
For EI to sit silent here and let this go on is unbelievable.
This has left a bad taste for me and I will not be supporting EI anymore.
Pierre
PS – I would have purchased the Paralumino plug ins in a heartbeat if they had AI import.
We don’t feel ourselves insulted, same as we don’t think we’ve insulted someone. We’ve no idea to critique your rules, simply you propose “a level of familarity” that we cannot share/accept - just because it would be unnatural for us. There is a some “bound” in relations and it’s better do not ovecome it. This bound is wider for you but narrower for us, that’s all, no any offenses.
About EI8 features - of course, you need to ask EITG. Hmmm.. generally there is “development status” thread That’s not in our competency to make any kind of promo/announce. If EITG avoids to do that - so we must accept this with patience/understanding. Untimely announce can devaluate features, make them something “self-clear” and “everyone knows” - it’s bad.
Again, let us remind you “easy to say - hard to do”. There are really nice ideas that, alas, cannot be implemented now yet. Some things (especially like 64/MP) require a series of pre-works first and so on. So all we can say = “going”
Whenever EI gives a ‘heads up’ on upgrades we get the weirdest slew of comments as seen on this thread.
EIAS is simply a great product, has been for many years, and has allowed me and my company to produce high quality work in ludicrously short deadlines (much to other software users confusion !)
Version 8 will undoubtedly build upon the successes of version 7 which I’m still joyfully pushing to its limits for my architectural illustration work.
Yes I have needs and desires and see some unbelievably good imagery from other packages but at the end of the day my experience lies with EIAS which allows me to work quickly and get good results. Both these factors mean a positive cashflow for my business which makes me happy.
So, my own comment would be to keep up the truly incredible work Igors, calm down you protagonists, and lets enjoy the birth of version 8 when its fully formed.
I’ll just pick up on a couple of comments, firstly, Navstar, you accidentally hit upon something when you mentioned both Camera and Zaxworks renderer aren’t MP - both were originally written by Mark Granger -. Secondly, James, you aren’t kidding: http://homepage.mac.com/cake_or_death/TMIAB-web.jpg ("Three Men in a Boat”.)- Less then three days work (including the time of going backward and forth with the client). Only in EI!
And on a personal note, the death of grammar on the internet wounds me too of course, each to their own ...
On the subject of an EIAS training DVD, I wouldn’t know where to begin! It’s worth serious consideration of course....
Hey Ian! I always knew there was a connection between Zax and EI. (I acutally thought Zax had written Camera, so thanks for correcting me there). It’s obviously a very well written rendering engine, and making it 64-bit/MP is bound to break something. I think After Effects’ self-spawning route is the way to go. Adobe *could* have spent endless R&D;hours making a highly threaded engine. But it must have been a technological/financial black hole.
And seriously—think about doing a structured training system. Have you checked out Lynda.com? CMiVFX? Gnomon? Video Copilot? There’s endless amounts of AE, Maya and C4D training. If someone wanted to buy EI, there’s no place to point them for any real training.
I enjoyed your Paralumino training—but want more. I’ve been using EI since 2.7 and there are still functions I’m not entirely clear about (and the dreadful manual is little help).
just as you say - many preworks are required to build certain capability into EIAS. To me - this means developing “under the hood” or “within the engine” structures for the software. Users may never see such structures, but they are crucial for future capabilities of the software to perform certain tasks.
I have faith that this development continues in the correct direction, and am looking forward to whatever version 8 offers.
FUTURE ..FUTURE.. FUTURE, what about now what about today?
hey everyone, this is how i see things about the DVD training. When you see Tomas work,Guet Apens(cover art for EI),i just have to say how in the world did they do that with EI these have to be done somewhere else. Why do i say these,well simply because i am struggling with EI after all these years, i thought i could go back again and ride it , but i am still a beginner . After using Maya and C4D is disappointing to go back to EI and not being able to do a simple RT reflection. Everything is so complicated to place a texture and kind of ¨you have to do it the hard way¨thing.
So i feel like time has pass and EI keeps being the same clumsy application that it was before,l feel like in v2.8. Is incredible.
I am not paying for an instructional DVD that should come in the first place with every copy of EI. Video tutorials and a good reference manual. But for my surprise when i got the update it came with some old tutorials from back 2.8
I was surprised and disappointed. All i am saying is that the problem still there, it could be hiding by some features but it hasnt improve the workflow, is the most important thing in 3d . How easy you are able to do tasks. Sure F-Curve from way back than is a great thing as new HDRI , Image Based Lightning all these is sounds like the product has grown a lot. But for my surprise it hasnt change the base structure.
I love EI but love has limits too. I made a choice to support EI. Because i wanted to support Paralumino . If they made a product for C4D i will get Paralumino plug.
Bottom of line they should make a major effort. Igors i know you are not a people person neither am I , the Igors are developers not a costumer service representative. But you need to make a bigger effort.
I just find EI very slow when it comes to work flow,basic texturing and shading, importing meshes from another application.
I will like these basic things to be fixed supporting multiple materials,fast import with no FACT traslation. Just import a model and take it back to Tesla retouch it and save it and an update of the model appears in Animator. That is what i am talking about.
Yes you guys are working but in their strongest CAMERA add effects or whatever but dont forget about Animator.
I am very upset by these thread all i hear is bad news,not some good news i support the product because even though i find these negative aspects i find that is very fast for not taking advantage of the Multicore system. The Caustics just work beautiful and produces a nice image quaility , and the best thing is when you want something really sharp and you pump up the Sampling and Anti aliasing.
But i donot who is not happy with the results they get from Camera they want to make it even faster Camera(ala Vray) common people is doing already nice image for you, the main areas users have asked is not being done. ANd we are a small community imagine if we were ADOBE .
PS:By the way EIAS is one of the only 3D applications that i use that still uses EI dongle which i find in my MacBookPro not so good to work with.I only have two USB. They should make available for installing only and than you can unplugged the dongle. As you can see is basic stuff .
Concerning training DVDs, perhaps Digital Tutors could be persuaded to include a line about EIAS? Their MAYA materials are excellent and highly regarded. If a EIAS line of tutors could be produced with equal quality, that might be a good thing.
just as you say - many preworks are required to build certain capability into EIAS. To me - this means developing “under the hood” or “within the engine” structures for the software. Users may never see such structures, but they are crucial for future capabilities of the software to perform certain tasks.
We agreed, it really looks like “developing “under the hood” And we realize people needs good, positive news. But what EITG should do? Just post a list of features under construction? But users need documentations, explanations, demos, tutorials etc - but nothing is here yet. Also: if (imagine) EITG does some announces, so next Q = when is the release? But there is a ton of work to do yet. Thus it’s quite reasonable to “save bullets” and to prepare all carefully for a later (or) release times.
Moreover there is another thing that now should be in focus: Tesla
Thank you PJR68. I just started to actively be a “forum posting guy” on a regular basis recently. I am having second
thoughts about it a little. People telling me to calm down when I try and help EI. We need MORE passionate evangelists that talk about and promote EI, not fewer.
.....
As much as I love EI, and thus far Brad, has been very kind to me in offering a featured artist position on this website.
(hopefully it will be up soon) and pretty receptive to my comments, he can’t do it all. I respect him so much for putting his money from his company into EI \ Tesla development. Anyone that uses EI regularly should feel grateful that he owns EI at this stage of its history.
.....
Having my post pulled and being called “insulting” to the Igors? Is about all I can handle for now. I speak to Brian Pohl daily and soon will be working in his office space on a long, long, project. So I am fully aware of all the personalities, the history of EI. And the side of EI’s reputation that is hurting it greatly. I actually care a lot about this product, and it kills me to see some of the same “issues” that drove countless users away from the product still existing. Brian kind of laughs at me a little when I explain to him some of the roadblocks I am running into in trying to HELP this company with my time AND in the exposure I am willing to give it. (My EI V7 & review WILL BE published very soon on Creative Cow - there was an illness that delayed my content from coming out sooner, like I planned, that now are better) I was motivated to write tutorials and how to’s, etc for the hundreds of thousands of readers they have daily and weekly showing people what EI could do, and why I believe it is so very close to being the #1 Broadcast design 3d solution. All free publicity that we all agree EI needs.
.....
Brian and I talk about it often. He tells me with a smile that he is seeing me go through the same things HE went through in trying to “help” EI. (and this has NOTHING to do with just a new paralumino product, as some assume) I told him that I am “new” on the scene here, and let me try and make some headway with the EI culture and communication practices. Maybe I will be received with more positive feedback. I can say this for Brian and Myself. While most people politely want to see V8 of EI and are generally happy with each revision (as I have been for years) We both don’t want to see animator “wither out on the vine” and just survive a little longer, we want to see it THRIVE, not just survive. Status quo will not help EI survive.
.....
Im in the trenches out here in LA. Literally TODAY I got a call from an LA production house for freelance work. They
loved my reel and were fine with a $900 ‘day rate’ I quoted. Called me back a second time to get even more contact info from me and check my schedule. I finished the conversation with them just fine. Great! right? Well, I did not
lie to them, I just did not TELL them that I use EI. They required a C4d artist. I knew it while we talked, I just, for once, did not speak up. So I lose out on 10’s of thousands of dollars, minimum, of work in large part due to my loyalty to EI. Boo hoo right? This has happened before to me on more than one occasion. Why am I sharing this?
Because my loyalty and fondness for EI has cost me financially a LOT in the last 2 years especially. Luckily, I have
enough clients that like my work and dont care what I do it in. (not as many as I would want yet)
.....
So when I talk to Brian about EI, I have a HUGE interest and motivation to get it accepted more in the industry. I dont
have frivelous requests on features, I have very well researched HANDS ON experience (and of course Brian really does) as to what can really give EI its best shot at possibly thriving again. As Tesla becomes EIs focus. Animator can
be properly positioned and marketed in an area not currently being serviced as well as it could be. Ei can not catch up to cinema, or maya or xsi, its not realistic, but it can forge a nice place in an underserved huge group of creatives.
(I will not go more into detail) but I will say this, It can be done With paraluminos tools OR without them. Its not a sales pitch from me. Its simply taking EI’s great strengths and adding a few targeted features for a certain group of animators. The beauty of it, is that it does not take away anything from any existing happy EI users. What it may do,
if done right, is allow people like me, Brian and anyone else that cares to tout EI as the #1 choice in a large animation
segment. Not the 3rd choice, but the BEST choice. I can argue it with facts and support it with output. I just don’t
have the power.
.....
their needs to be a synergy between industry professionals AND EITG. The boldness that comes with changing the way a company communicates to its users. Change is scary to some who may have done things a certain way for years, and it takes the ability to put AWAY your ego for the good of the product. But when it actually gets implemented, it blows fresh air all over the place for all to breath and enjoy.
......
I know what I have to do personally if I want more work right now, (get cinema or my preference Maya) and practice practice practice. But Im not there 100% yet. Im old fashioned, I still am naive enough to believe that a high quality
reel and a good personality can get me work, and NOT a piece of software alone. But that is fading, sadly.
......
Im not above being disciplined in these forums, but man oh man, take a survey on who brings good will and support to EI, and what verbally has hurt EI for many years now. PR is a critical thing that needs to be nourished, not eroded. I do need to pay Brian Pohl for the free EI
therapy he gives me day in and day out, he’s a real gem for this community.............
Ok if that is so than i understand now why EITG want to focus on Camera and licensed it. And how long was the competitive upgrade on EI website.
For me Animator can survive if they make it a read all type of application.Without passing by Transporter, just buy OBJ2FACT and enhance the capabilities. We have now FBX, so no problem there. BUt Some character animators have some request lie weight maps,etc.
EI is never gonna be a character animation tool it will probably fade away but it can at least bring any type of data from any outside software and be able to accept it.
MP and 64 bit sounds fantastic but if Animator is left as it is than enhance Camera and make it available as a plug in. So it can be used with Maya,C4D or whatever as a plug in .
Is this what EITG has been trying to do? Otherwise i dont understand what plans do they have for the future.
I’m a little bit puzzled, EIAS comes with a lot of free video training, I should know, I did most of it. It comes with more then Modo, more then Maya and more then Max. I personally don’t think it’s a bad start. Yes, I’ll do more
I have seen many Gnomon DVDs (I own several) - The whole “Dimentionalising 2D Images” (clumsy name) video training series from Paralumino is predicated on a Gnomon DVD - without wanting to sound arrogant, my video does more, better, in less time, then the Gnomon video (for Maya) I’m emulating. I was surprised at how fast using EIAS was to complete such a project. I’m in no way denigrating the Gnomon video (The Refinery Project) - It’s great, but the EIAS workflow isn’t slow, and if you think it is, I obviously need to pull my thumb out and do more videos
People with suggestions on how EITG conducts it’s business, please write to Brad Parscale, things written on the forums tend to get buried. Brad is a great chap, he’s been very open with me whenever I’ve asked a question. I believe EITG is in great hands. Lots of age old gripes are being dealt with in EIAS 8 and I am sure it will be a very credible alternative to Vray (which incidentally, also requires a dongle now).
It’s a great time to be a user, better then anytime in the last few years, If you have any questions on any kind of bottleneck in the workflow, start a thread and I’ll chime in. Sorry if this all sounds a little stern, I promise I’m smiling
That’s not in our competency to make any kind of promo/announce. If EITG avoids to do that - so we must accept this with patience/understanding. Untimely announce can devaluate features, make them something “self-clear” and “everyone knows” - it’s bad.
